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Poster: ringolevio Date: Mar 1, 2010 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

I guess I don't really agree that song is about sex.

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 1, 2010 6:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

You don't think there is more to it?

Look up Zappa and you find he was not a pedder-ass. He is making a statement about repressed sexuality and it's not a nice picture. If I write a story about rape does that make me a rapist?

It's pretty obvious that Zappa is into satire... I figure everybody knew his shtick?

I doubt you are as simple minded as you sound.

How do you feel about Sugaree? I could list any number of GD songs that are sexist to max! If not sexist violent or just plan stupid. (TJ)

The GD had quite a reputation for being a macho kinda group and it was hard for Betty Cantor to hold her ground. I'm sure Donna did not have an easy job either... I mean it's time you open up your eyes. Somebody posting and old zappa song should not pierce you skin to the point where you are looking make a black list or need censorship.

I was hoping somebody else would chime in but the regulars where more interested in impressing the girl and did not step up to defend Zappa.


It was nice to see WT admit that naming people would get him in trouble and him letting us sort it out.

And IMHO (in my humble opinion) you are a prude if you think that song so offensive.


This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:00:39

This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:06:35

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 1, 2010 10:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

"I was hoping somebody else would chime in..."

ask and you shall receive.

Zappa crap/discussion notwithstanding, you sir are a dick (as is your Jackoff Hughes alter ego)

WT is too much a gentleman to point this out (but since I am not, i will.) You spell worse than my 10 year old > your prowess is the art of debate is, might i propose, severely lacking > and your intellect has apparently regressed to a period in evolution marked by the initial appearance of mitochondrial dna (assuming there was at one time a point from which you may have first regressed.)

To sum up (or reiterate, however you wish to view it).... you are a fuckin' tool.

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 2, 2010 9:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

yeah well Dire, I guess that makes two of us.

I prefer WT lighter touch to your insults.

I already mentioned I can't spell. I'm dyslexic and what I'm saying just is not that offensive...

Giving me a hard time about spelling = barrel, fish = shotgun...

Come on brother you don't want to be a Zappa hater, insecure about some random post guy do you? I got like no beef with you you know.


This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 17:01:13

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 2, 2010 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

cannot say i am a Zappa hater, but I have never really thought much of his music - more a personal/auditory decision rather than anything about Zappa as a person, etc.

and i will tip my cap to you for the decision not to return a vitriolic personal assault toward me. well done.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 1, 2010 9:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

I would note that knowing Ring O as well as I do, it is the outright pedophile posts and pics that are upsetting (I agree completely), not necessarily lyrics. Knowing Zappa's penchant for pushing the envelope, I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss or divine his true intention, since as you note, he was a complex man (an idiot too, for what he let his prostate do to him, but that's between him and his world view on the medical profession). However, I would also point out that this whole biz about however it is that I happen to chat with the gals, the very few that show now and again, is between me and them...and, the notion it is offensive to them, has been put to rest...how can you possibly take the innocent accolades that pass for a polite "how do you do" for anything other than respect? If you've come late to the conversation about the fact that Miss D and I chatted about going to a prom one fine day years ago, and that we connected off site for various reasons, but one of which was to be sure such jokes/quips/etc. were not misconstrued, how do you jump to the conclusion that I am some sort of misfit groveling for attn? It seems to me that the only one suppressing free speech would the one to continually comment on conversations between two individuals on the Forum in which neither of the individuals involved ever seem to have an issue with the tone, the words, or the implications...

As I have said many times before, when one single participant in "my" back and forth exchanges lets me know anything whatsoever was out of line, even mildly offensive or off base, that's all it'd take for me to back off, apologize, or whatever...but the odd thing is that has never happened...all that has happened is that the folks that don't know squat about the relationships (admittedly, odd little web relationships) seem to be upset by it...

What's that all about? What is so bothersome about it? I'd say it reveals more about the commentators than the two individuals involved...

Oh, and sorry if you're not the one that keeps mentioning it; you did hear, and in the one as Jacky Hughes, but maybe I've got that wrong.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Mar 2, 2010 6:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

I guess I didn't see this yesterday but this business about you and "the girls" is completely silly. Just really.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 3, 2010 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

Well, thank you for that...I figure that a little obsequi Es Ness is not necessarily a bad thing, but somehow, it REALLY riles up some of the other guys round here...the minute one of the gals says "oooeuuuwww!" then it's over...in reality though, I have spoken in almost the exact same tones with many a "guy" round here, and accused of being gay (fine by me) for it in the early years...

Really no biggie; but the fact that folks keep brining it up, and my worry wart anal retentive nature causes ME to keep revisiting it...so, all the positive reinforcment the better.

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 2, 2010 9:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

WT No idea what pics or posts your referring to but the Zappa song was taken out of context and misunderstood.

BTW i find hearing about how you know people so well personally, boring, all I can see is the posts. If you knew me personally then what?


and yeah I'm not making any Jacky Hughes references... get it straight! WTF are you guys talking about? Wait , DON'T TELL ME, it sounds retarded already.


While slightly OT check this out! This is relevant to he tape thread also, BTW.


There were failings at the heart of the hippie mentality that led to its easy co-option by the record industry. The hippies' accommodation to class society was expressed in their idealism, which recycled one of the basic tenets of middle-class ideology: the belief that true values are above commerce, above the here-and-now of material society. Unlike rock'n'roll, this meant that its relation to a mass audience could only be hypocritical. It explains why hippie bands were invariably photographed in the countryside: the `non-commercial' (as opposed to Zappa's anti-commercial) floats outside time in idealized nature. By contrast, Absolutely Free (1967) depicted a cityscape blocked with traffic. Zappa mentioned how disappointed he was with the music of the San Francisco scene, and it is easy to see why: its anthemic, folk-based meanderings had little relationship to either R&B or Edgar Varese. Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead, the Quicksilver Messenger Service provided a kind of pastel wallpaper to the hippie lifestyle.... Part of the hippie ethos was a hazy contempt for `product'; this entailed lifestyle soundtracks without great aesthetic ambitions. Everyone was only too happy to hear Jerry Garcia plunking away as they rolled their joints. These bands were explicitly pro-drugs, which directly contradicted what Zappa felt was a freak principle (though of course there had been plenty of drug-taking in LA). Most of all it was the philosophy that offended Zappa: in engaging with it he worked out a species of materialism, a defense of secular imagination and real-time capability that is truly inspiring (unless of course you are a hippie or an idealist, in which case he just bursts your balloon).

Freak Out! is still fascinating - not because it represents some purist alternative, but because it uses commercialism against itself. Zappa was still capable of playing off-the-leash, socking R&B (and showed this on `Trouble Every Day'), but he was too fascinated by contradiction to restrict himself to that base. The leering threat of Freak Out! a terrorizing hint that something unspeakably filthy is going on, was brilliantly coordinated with cover graphics and liner notes: it was designed to catch the interest of anyone as jaded as Zappa with the conformist rigmarole of high school. A record of `well-played' blues and avant-garde composition could not achieve the same miasma of defilement as achieved by perverting innocent pop.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1510/is_n89/ai_18109996/


Yeah the little world we live is ain't perfect!



This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 17:02:15

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 2, 2010 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

sorry--you and the poster Jacky Hughes appear to be the same poster; isn't that obvious what was meant? If you're not, fine; but becuase you say the same things, the inference was reasonable, right?

And, frankly, anyone that uses the term "retarded" is just not worth the time of day...

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 2, 2010 10:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

Honestly WT, I don't know who you are talking about.

I have tried to talk sense with you but I guess anything other and a full on ass kissing does not work for you.

Just because I can't spell and don't kiss you royal behind does not mean I'm this other guy, whom I don't know or care about

May I suggest stepping out from under the rock you call your home?



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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 3, 2010 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

Sorry then, the Jacky Hughes poster is someone different...but, you do still use the term "retarded", right?

Gotta defense for that one?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 3, 2010 8:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

Honestly, old friend, I'd just let it go. I don't believe he's Jacky H., but he certainly is a bullshit baffler of the first order. Get back to enjoying your mountain while you can. (First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is ...)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 3, 2010 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

Good for you--gotta finish my giant sized coffee first...and besides, the anti73 replies will be flooding in at any moment, so I'll give them a few moments.

Hey, at least the gals continue to stand by me, so that counts for something, eh? Hope all is well with you.

You know, I may be hypercritical, but I always felt that the sorts of satire Zappa espoused was no great shakes. I'd take Tom Lehrer any day (there, maybe that'll get him going...hmmm, scratch that).

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 3, 2010 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

I'm happy to admit that I'm no great fan of Zappa's. He was an ok guitarist, had a degree of originality and tried to innovate a little, but definitely not as smart lyrically as many would like to believe he was. Satire need not mean losing your audience through offensiveness, Lehrer knew that. Then again, I'm sure there are many members of Zappa's audience who consider offensiveness to be a definite plus.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 2, 2010 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

http://tinyurl.com/yg2xppx

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 2, 2010 9:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

"Sorry videos are not currently available in your country."

Discrimination! Out and out discrimination!

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Poster: vapors Date: Mar 1, 2010 5:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

Hey - you’d think that most would accept the rope we feed them to pull them out of the pit they have dug, yet some will dig anew all the more furious. They seem to enjoy the depths.

Don’t feed the nasty trolls.

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 1, 2010 6:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

Look Vapors
I also have a vaporizer, I have a feeling we could be friends... so listen to this.

I'll dig you new hole until you get this....

Zappa manages to make fun of the GD in song yet still Jerry opens for his shows. (true)
(listen to Zappa you will not regret!)

O.K.

Zappa was a cool as it gets.

Being controversial was important in the days before we where all brain washed by the political correct police!


I'm no troll and Zappa ain't no peder-ass! Yes I posted quite a bit today. Out of rage nobody was willing to point out that that song is not offensive it simply deals with a controversial topic.

Zappa was into satire and social commentary. It was well known at the time.
Being offended by this song means you are a peder-ass yourself!

Dude where is my underground scene?


Vap, also you have never given me a rope to climb out on...so don't act like you are reaching out to make peace or any such thing.
I'll smoke the peace pipe with anybody here. I'll cover you back and be loyal to you. When I don't like you crap I'll tell you! Step up, BRO!


I admit I had to edit this post because I can't spell and have trouble string words together.... I do have a story to tell!


This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:16:27

This post was modified by groovernut on 2010-03-02 02:18:59

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Poster: mickmac Date: Mar 1, 2010 6:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

I love Zappa. I dont love beating a deathless horsie.

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 1, 2010 6:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star 1971

I'll take that rope and ride that dead horse out of this thread...

thanks!